I'm frustrated

"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich) 07/05/2018 at 19:34 • Filed to: None

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Hi, I’m BaconSandwhich, and today I’m somewhat frustrated.

Overnight, for no apparent reason at all, gas went up $0.10/L. (Or roughly $0.29/gallon). It’s now $1.38/L. I know that’s not as bad as it out in British Columbia, but still...

This got me looking at the prices of used Chevy Volts and BMW i3s. My usual go-to place is the Bay Area Craigslist. There’s some surprisingly nice cars for sale - a few Volts <$10K USD, and a few i3s (with the REX!) for ~$15K USD. I was curious about the i3, so I got a few insurance quotes - $33/month or so for insurance. I suspect that isn’t too far off from what I’m currently paying on a 17 year old Honda Civic.

The only major down-side is that I’d likely be saving less in the long run compared to keeping that money and earning interest on it.  But at some point I’m going to get so fed up with being dragged around by the metaphorical nose, I’m going to stick it to “big oil” and buy myself an EV.  I’ve told myself that my next vehicle will have a plug - either plugin hybrid or full EV.

Also, to top it off, my commute home was longer than usual because the police had hauled someone over on one of the two major bridges over the river that divide the city. This resulted in everyone squeezing into two lanes (instead of three). And while I was stuck in the slow moving (i.e.: 5 km/h) traffic, the vehicle ahead of me was burning oil like crazy.

dogisbadob > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:00

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You guys got the diesel smart car, and you also get the Micra. The B-class is cool, too.

Cabin filters are awesome. Then you wouldn’ t smell that oil burning, or at least smell it less :o)

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:08

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I just paid 1.55 for regular here on Vancouver

Chariotoflove > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:11

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The problem, of course, is to get an EV that doesn’t have a price premium attached that overwhelms the fuel savings (although there is the tax credit, isn’t there?). I guess it all comes down to math.

I sure would like to have a car that I can refuel each night in my own garage and not have to go to gas stations.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:13

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Remind me what you drive again?

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:15

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get an lpg conversion

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:20

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You should cross the border to gas up we are still around $3.00/gal in Montana and Idaho.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:32

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Holy shit your car insurance is cheap. 

zipfuel > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 07/05/2018 at 20:37

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Big government run insurance, it sounds awesome. The private racket in Ontario would likely run you 3-4  times that minimum

zipfuel > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:40

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Consider the unloved and unnoticed plugin hybrid cars : I was stunned at how cheap a nearly new Ford C-Max Energi could be had. It’s range isn’t big but it’s a really useful wagon that you could do a tpical commute  with for nearly free.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > dogisbadob 07/05/2018 at 20:45

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Thing is, there’s so few warm days a year, I like to keep the windows down.  I also leave my car parked at work (it’s in an industrial sector where there really isn’t anyone walking around) with the windows cracked down a bit so the suction cup on the dash cam doesn’t fall off.  If I leave the windows up, it gets crazy hot in the car, and the dash cam falls off.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 07/05/2018 at 20:46

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Brutal, isn’t it?  No thanks to the stupid Alberta government, no doubt.

chaozbandit > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:46

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Toronto’s been at $1.38 for the past month lol Ive always toyed with picking up a second hand Leaf tho.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Chariotoflove 07/05/2018 at 20:48

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Exactly.  I’ve been keeping my eyes on used Volt prices, and they have slowly been getting down there.  A year ago, you really wouldn’t see many, if any below the $10k mark.  Now there’s a few out there.  Leafs have generally been $3k or so cheaper, but the limited range would be a bit of a deal breaker.  Ideally I need a car that can safely do a 150 km trip in winter.  The i3 has, to my advantage, been depreciating brutally.  There’s some 2014 models I looked at that were in the $15k range.  My concern was higher insurance, but it might actually not be that bad.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:49

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Something’s causing it that’s for sure. Check this shit out. My monthly gas costs:

The dips are vacation/holiday/business trip related.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/05/2018 at 20:49

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2001 Civic. http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic/2001/joelb/165875

I’ve been averaging ~34 mpg, which isn’t bad.  But we’ve recently got a minivan, which makes the total family fleet fuel economy take a bit of a nose dive.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 07/05/2018 at 20:50

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That’s something I hadn’t even thought about.  But I think between LPG and an EV, I’d rather go the EV route.  It’d also be another excuse to run a 220v outlet to the garage for a car charger (or a larger welder... just throwing that out there).

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/05/2018 at 20:50

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1 hour trip to the border, ~3 to Great Falls.  The economics probably don’t work out, unless I could somehow carry 100+L of gas.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 07/05/2018 at 20:52

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Being 30+, married, with a university education, never made a claim, and no previous accidents or tickets... I’m pretty much the ideal insurance customer.  It also drops a bit if you bundle in home insurance.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > zipfuel 07/05/2018 at 20:55

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The cheapest C-Max Energi I’ve seen is still $10K+. Might as well go for the Volt at that price.

Either way, I’d probably end up importing it from the US. Even with the crappy exchange rate, it’d still be a lot cheaper than buying one up here. No one in “oil country” seems to buy EVs or plugin hybrids. I think in the entire city of 100,000 I’ve seen:
- 6 or so Volts (I’ve talked to half of them, and they all like them)
- 2 or 3 Tesla Model Ses
- 1 Mitsubishi iMiev
- 2 BMW i8s
- 1 BMW i3
- 1 Telsa Model X

BaconSandwich is tasty. > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 07/05/2018 at 20:57

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That’s absolutely brutal.

I’m generally filling up 2-3 times a month.  Mrs. BaconSandwich’s Vibe was probably similar, but the new (to us) Sienna is going to likely 1.5x her gas usage.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > chaozbandit 07/05/2018 at 20:58

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I don’t suppose there are any incentives in Ontario for buying used?  I know there’s rebates for new vehicles...

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:59

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It’s seriously shitty.  With insurance and parking, it costs... lots to stay employed.

Discerning > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 20:59

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If I could justify two cars, one of them would be a 530e. The all electric range is enough that I wouldn’t have to fuel up during any point in my commute.

vicali > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 21:02

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Yep, went up .10 last night to 1.49/L.

Makes me want a ruckus for the summer..

Chariotoflove > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 21:09

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And no tax credit if you buy used.

Why is insurance higher? Is it because of that  hot rodding, street racing EVer stereotype?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 21:26

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We have the same exact MPG! :P

http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/accent/2009/darkstrike/194627

(Yay, another Fuelly user! Just added you as a friend there, I’ve got several other Oppos on my Fuelly friends list too!)

BaconSandwich is tasty. > vicali 07/05/2018 at 21:28

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I have a co-worker who has one. It looks like fun.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Chariotoflove 07/05/2018 at 21:31

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I thought insurance would have been higher because the overall worth of the vehicle is higher, and repairs would be a lot more. The i3 is mostly carbon fiber, so any real significant damage and I suspect they would write it off.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/05/2018 at 21:31

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:P

vicali > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 21:35

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If I didn’t do the kids pickup run after school I  would be riding a ct90..

nermal > Chariotoflove 07/05/2018 at 21:36

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My educated guess is that insurance is higher on some EVs for a couple reasons. First, because of the hypermiling enviro-snobs they attract that drive 10 mph under the speed limit. This is just as dangerous as Ken Block wannabe bros in Evos and STIs, thus comparable insurance rates.

Second, if an i3 gets in an accident it’s most likely a total loss due to the carbon fiber structure.

Third, there aren’t enough of them to spread costs over. One $50k i3 gets totalled, it causes the average cost per car to jump up significantly.

Want cheaper insurance? Be a middle aged, married woman in a mid-size sedan or crossover. They generally keep up with traffic and don’t crash too much, or cause much $$$ damage when they do. Plus, there are a lot of them.

nermal > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 21:42

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Cars are an expense. Unless you’re using it for work / business, there is zero ROI and only cost. So, don’t spend $10-15k to save $50 a month on fuel, it will never pay off.

If you want one, its range fits your anticipated usage, and you can afford it, get it. If you simply are looking for the most economical transportation, a 3-5 year old Toyota or Honda sedan that you can drive for 10 yrs is the correct choice.

chaozbandit > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 21:50

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None, but it’s irrelevant because our newly elected premier scrapped the entire green vehicle incentive program effective immediately.

zipfuel > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 22:00

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I suppose the definition of “cheap” varies - I was seeing nearly new well equipped or loaded <3 0,000km Energis for like high teens low twenties which seemed like a steal for a long life family hauler with no gas bills.

My frame of refere nce is paying like $17k for an off lease Jetta wagon with 60,000km and less equipment some years ago mind.

Since you’re west coast can you get your hands on one of those electric fiat 500s that FCA was basically giving away on ~$100 leases for compliance purposes in CA?

BJ > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 22:16

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Where in Canada are you?

In Montréal, gas prices swing 10-20c per litre every week. Every single week. Prices fly up on Thursday and come down on Sunday or Monday, typically. I don’t know today’s price (I’m on vacation out of town) but $1.35-1.50 / litre is normal from recent memory. This has been the normal price for a couple of years now , I think. Super (91 octane) costs about 13-15 cents per litre extra!

I was in New Brunswick for 2 weeks and the price was 1.24 every day. And super only cost about 6 cents more.

Quebecers, and more specifically montrealers, are getting ripped off, hard.

Chariotoflove > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 22:23

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I guess it could be, considering what you move from.

Chariotoflove > nermal 07/05/2018 at 22:25

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I have a hard time believing EVers are at higher risk for traffic accidents, but the cost of the car might be an issue.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/05/2018 at 23:04

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They should have duty free gas stations at the border.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > nermal 07/06/2018 at 00:05

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That’s basically what I’m driving now, except it’s 17 years old with 270,000 km on it. Around here a car is almost a necessity- the city is spread out, and if I were to commute on public transit or bike, I would lose an hour or more a day. To me, the expense of a car is worth the extra time I save.

As for an EV, part of it would be to prove a point to the oil and gas industry. We can't keep burning gasoline for the purpose of transportation when there are viable alternatives. It isn't sustainable. It has served us well for the last 100 years, but it isn't going to carry us forward for the next 100 years.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > zipfuel 07/06/2018 at 00:08

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I'm not west coast though - Southern Alberta. I just usually look on the bay area Craigslist as it seems to be a general measuring stick for prices.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > BJ 07/06/2018 at 00:09

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Southern Alberta. Over the winter we were paying closer to $1/L. Since then it jumped to $1.20, then $1.30 and now close to $1.40.

Long-Voyager > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/06/2018 at 07:20

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Pretty sure $10-15k buys a lot of gas for the car you already own......